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Thread: Ted Cruz Compares Himself to Galileo, Calls Those Who Believe In Climate Change 'Flat-Earthers' | Th

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    Engorged Member H.I. McDunnough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid a View Post
    I mean the minimum wage sector increasing their productivity by working harder, on average.
    Are we talking about what is technically possible or what is likely/expected/customary? Because, sure that is technically possible, but not customarily what is seen, from the sector as a whole. and when it is seen on a andividual level, those people tend to get promoted, raises, etc. so they are no longer part of that segment of labor.

    *pre-emptive: please don't try and act like they wouldn't get promotions or raises "because businesses are greedy". That'd be utterly ridiculous. We've all gotten a raise at some point. In my life I've worked 4 different jobs that started at min wage and got raises/promotions based on my performance.
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    Engorged Member H.I. McDunnough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid a View Post
    I think you make an interesting point, but it doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint that raising one entire group's wages cause inflation while raising another group's doesn't. Especially since the raise in CEO pay is by so much more than the minimum wage sector.

    Also, I think my sources show that minimum wage wouldn't cause inflation. Or if it did, it would be marginal.
    are you talking about inflationary adjustments or "significant" increases? That is what makes the difference. And to your first point, I'm sorry, that's economics. Also "the second group" (CEO) does not get a raise "in batch" like min wage labor would. Yes their salaries have increased, some to obscene levels, but they are all on an individual basis and still founded on the basis of supply and demand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.I. McDunnough View Post
    Are we talking about what is technically possible or what is likely/expected/customary? Because, sure that is technically possible, but not customarily what is seen, from the sector as a whole. and when it is seen on a andividual level, those people tend to get promoted, raises, etc. so they are no longer part of that segment of labor.

    *pre-emptive: please don't try and act like they wouldn't get promotions or raises "because businesses are greedy". That'd be utterly ridiculous. We've all gotten a raise at some point. In my life I've worked 4 different jobs that started at min wage and got raises/promotions based on my performance.
    I mean that if minimum wage had increased based on worker productivity, it would be $15/hr or so.

    And just because they may get a raise, putting them above minimum, many still fall under the poverty line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.I. McDunnough View Post
    are you talking about inflationary adjustments or "significant" increases? That is what makes the difference. And to your first point, I'm sorry, that's economics. Also "the second group" (CEO) does not get a raise "in batch" like min wage labor would. Yes their salaries have increased, some to obscene levels, but they are all on an individual basis and still founded on the basis of supply and demand.
    True, not in batch, but on average their salaries have increased by insane amounts.

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    Also, according to my sources, that's not the case.

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    Engorged Member H.I. McDunnough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid a View Post
    I mean that if minimum wage had increased based on worker productivity, it would be $15/hr or so.

    And just because they may get a raise, putting them above minimum, many still fall under the poverty line.
    not true - increased productivity in the last 50 years is largely credited to improved processes and automation, not worker outputs.

    and one person earning the current min wage in a 2 person household is still above the poverty line. So I'm not sure what you're driving at with the second part
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid a View Post
    Also, according to my sources, that's not the case.
    but you don't want to share those sources? because there is no cabal that says this year CEO's are going to get a raise. That's not how this works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.I. McDunnough View Post
    not true - increased productivity in the last 50 years is largely credited to improved processes and automation, not worker outputs.

    and one person earning the current min wage in a 2 person household is still above the poverty line. So I'm not sure what you're driving at with the second part
    http://www.epi.org/publication/minim...ymore-raising/

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    ok. So we're talking about families of 3? I mean, you realize the "poverty line" is a sliding scale based on household members right? Also, again, we DO agree that it is overdue for inflationary adjustment. so again, not sure what you're driving at. Posting a link with no articulation of your opinion makes this kind of a difficult discussion
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.I. McDunnough View Post
    but you don't want to share those sources? because there is no cabal that says this year CEO's are going to get a raise. That's not how this works.
    I shared some of them earlier in the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kid a View Post
    I shared some of them earlier in the thread.
    oh, my mistake I'll go back a re-read where they tell us that COE's get raises in batch.

    Also, note I'm not criticizing the validity of your decidedly leftist sources.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.I. McDunnough View Post
    ok. So we're talking about families of 3? I mean, you realize the "poverty line" is a sliding scale based on household members right? Also, again, we DO agree that it is overdue for inflationary adjustment. so again, not sure what you're driving at. Posting a link with no articulation of your opinion makes this kind of a difficult discussion
    Sorry. You asserted that minimum wage workers in families of 2 are above the poverty line. The article says otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kid a View Post
    Sorry. You asserted that minimum wage workers in families of 2 are above the poverty line. The article says otherwise.
    My mistake, I did quick mental math and my rounding eliminated the $900/ year deficit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.I. McDunnough View Post
    oh, my mistake I'll go back a re-read where they tell us that COE's get raises in batch.

    Also, note I'm not criticizing the validity of your decidedly leftist sources.
    I admit they don't get raises in batch, but just on average they have gotten absurd raises.

    The only sources I question are the ones funded or founded by the Koch brothers because they have spent billions paying off politicians and lobbying for tax cuts for the wealthiest people and other policies that favor the rich. This an organization affiliated with them is going to be biased.

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    Or others with that level of possible bias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kid a View Post
    I admit they don't get raises in batch, but just on average they have gotten absurd raises.

    The only sources I question are the ones funded or founded by the Koch brothers because they have spent billions paying off politicians and lobbying for tax cuts for the wealthiest people and other policies that favor the rich. This an organization affiliated with them is going to be biased.
    sure. but not more than huffpo, EPI, thinkprogress. And again, I'll reiterate the STUDY has nothing to do with those evil Kochs. So ignore the commentary articles and just read the study

    EDIT: you understand that all non-profit "think tanks" are politically biased right? The trick is to carefully assess the methods and results yourself to draw a conclusion which is less clouded by bias
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.I. McDunnough View Post
    sure. but not more than huffpo, EPI, thinkprogress. And again, I'll reiterate the STUDY has nothing to do with those evil Kochs. So ignore the commentary articles and just read the study

    EDIT: you understand that all non-profit "think tanks" are politically biased right? The trick is to carefully assess the methods and results yourself to draw a conclusion which is less clouded by bias
    But the study was done by an organization founded and funded by them. That's the thing that taints it. Huffpo, epi, and thinkprogress don't stand to make absurd amounts of money from their opinions like Koch affiliated organizations do.

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    Doesn't it stand to reason that a group founded or funded by them is going to push their agenda? Especially if they stand to make tons of money?

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    Engorged Member H.I. McDunnough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid a View Post
    But the study was done by an organization founded and funded by them. That's the thing that taints it. Huffpo, epi, and thinkprogress don't stand to make absurd amounts of money from their opinions like Koch affiliated organizations do.
    WTF are you talking about? the study was done by the national bureau of economic research. They are a free market leaning equivalent of EPI.


    Also, you don't think huffpo, thinkprogress, EPI make money off pushing their agenda? are you on drugs???
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.I. McDunnough View Post
    WTF are you talking about? the study was done by the national bureau of economic research. They are a free market leaning equivalent of EPI.


    Also, you don't think huffpo, thinkprogress, EPI make money off pushing their agenda? are you on drugs???
    I didn't question them, just the study from the Cato institute and reason.Com.

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